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Crunchy parenting suffers a blow...


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#1 unicycle_mike

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 01:45 PM

http://ca.news.yahoo...024437-983.html

Despite being a case of the parents weren't as informed about their decisions as they should've been, I have a feeling this'll be used against those BF'ing, with the vegan BF'ing moms getting the most flack. Poor little babe. :(

Edited by unicycle_mike, 31 March 2011 - 01:46 PM.


#2 Sam

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 01:55 PM

Sad story :(

#3 vals

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 01:59 PM

A parents personal lifestyle choices should not affect the health of a baby. I'm sorry, but humans are omnivors and require the proteins, vitamins and minerals from a balanced diet to be healthy. Its one thing to be a vegan, but to not supplement your child's diet even after a doctors expressed concern is NEGLECT and these parents should be jailed. I don't think this will turn into an anti breastfeeding campaign, but more so one that deals with parents putting their own beliefs a head of their childs needs!

#4 Jen K

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 02:21 PM

I dont see how the vegan diet has anything to do with it. What if the mother was just a vegetarian? They were only breastfeeding there almost 1 year old and the child was malnourished and sick. My kids all weighed at 4 months what this 11 month old weighed.

Unless I am misreading the article, does it not say the child was only breastfed? I was always told that breastfed babies should have vitamin supplements anyways.

The child died plain and simple because the parents didnt feed it any solid foods, and the media is throwing in the vegan status to bash vegans. The child could have easily been eating fresh fruits and veggies , pastas, soy milk etc.

The parents neglected this child and I really dont see how being a vegan has anything to do with it.

#5 Kris

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 02:35 PM

I agree this is neglect! When your child only weights 12lbs and was very sick with bronchitis and you dont get her meds or supplement vitamins in her diet than you should be jailed. I agree it do not see this as anti vegan or anti bfing, I see it as a case of child abuse due to parents not meeting the childs basic needs

#6 JavaBean

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 03:23 PM

I think there is way more to this story than what is being put out by the media. A normal, healthy 11 mth old can totally thrive on just mama's milk without food supplementation needed, whether or not mama is vegan. I think you'd be surprised how many meat eating people are also deficient in B12. The media loves to spin stories in all sorts of ways to sensationalize.

#7 lissada

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 03:25 PM

I am not sure that I agree with the title of this post (I wouldn't label them crunchy!) but anyways, I think that there is more to this story then what is being shared! I know of a few babies who were exclusively breastfed for the first year and grew just find into strong and healthy children! I also think that the doctor is a somewhat responsible because if he felt that there was a serious problem then the proper authorities should have been called in and the child removed!

#8 DivineMrsM

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 03:31 PM

I agree with Java and lissada. There is way more to this story, I'm sure of it. And shame on that doctor for not protecting that baby!!

I know that there are lots of EBF kids 12mths and older that are far from malnourished. Those parents were plain neglectful, but it had nothing to do with breastfeeding.

And as far as I know, it's just Vit D that you are "supposed" to supplement, Jen. I didn't though. I saved my money and put them in the sun! lol

#9 Lasergirl

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 03:32 PM

I agree-- lots of babies do very well being exclusively BF'd for a full year. I also no many Mom's would would have probably treated with the poutice as they did.
I think the child was probably far sicker than the parents thought- which is very unfortunate. I am a total believer in natural remedies of allopathic ones, but sometimes you have to get out the big guns when there is a severe infection

#10 terbear

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 03:49 PM

I think there is way more to this story than what is being put out by the media. A normal, healthy 11 mth old can totally thrive on just mama's milk without food supplementation needed, whether or not mama is vegan. I think you'd be surprised how many meat eating people are also deficient in B12. The media loves to spin stories in all sorts of ways to sensationalize.


yes that is what I thought too. heck people on this site have been saying exclusively bfing a baby as long as possible is best..and there have been debates around people saying a mom's diet shouldn't impact the baby

there has to be more to the story

#11 Kindermom

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 03:57 PM

There definitely has to be more to the story. I had a child who was exclusively b'fed until she was 1 and she weighed over 25 lbs. No idea about the vegan part of it but I know for a fact that it has nothing to do with exclusively breastfeeding for a year.

#12 Tired Mom

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 04:17 PM

I wonder if they are calling her vegan just because she doesn't eat meat. It could be possible that she wasn't eating properly for the two of them, so baby wasn't getting enough. I know there is different definitions for vegatarians and vegans, and the person who wrote the article could be as ignorant as I am about the differences lol.

I know its been said that mom's diet doesn't matter she will still provide for baby, but if there has been lack of proper nutrition being consumed by the mother over a long period of time there may just not be any reserves left to provide for baby. I don't mean that vegans are deprived, those who do it properly finding protein replacements and such I'm sure stay healthy too.

One other thing that I wondered, would they have ruled out digestive diseases that could severly interfere with the absorption of nutrients into the baby's body from the bm? Is that even possible?

#13 JavaBean

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 04:21 PM

I wonder if they are calling her vegan just because she doesn't eat meat. It could be possible that she wasn't eating properly for the two of them, so baby wasn't getting enough. I know there is different definitions for vegatarians and vegans, and the person who wrote the article could be as ignorant as I am about the differences lol.

I know its been said that mom's diet doesn't matter she will still provide for baby, but if there has been lack of proper nutrition being consumed by the mother over a long period of time there may just not be any reserves left to provide for baby. I don't mean that vegans are deprived, those who do it properly finding protein replacements and such I'm sure stay healthy too.

One other thing that I wondered, would they have ruled out digestive diseases that could severly interfere with the absorption of nutrients into the baby's body from the bm? Is that even possible?



And don't you wonder why there's no fault on the doctor who saw this problem ie. an 11 mth old weighing 12 lbs?! This is where I totally think there's way more to this. The whole thing doesn't make sense.

#14 Kris

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 06:26 PM

I wonder if it has anything to do with the bronchitis, could that possible get so sever to kill a child? I agree why did the doctor not call to report neglect? A baby that old should not weigh so little. As a professional he is obligated to report that

#15 Lasergirl

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 07:18 PM

I don't think neglect on the [arents part is the issue at all. Neglect on the Dr's part- yes. At 12 lbs, he shoud have been running tests to see why the baby wasn't thriving

#16 Tired Mom

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 07:24 PM

I don't think neglect on the [arents part is the issue at all. Neglect on the Dr's part- yes. At 12 lbs, he shoud have been running tests to see why the baby wasn't thriving


I don't agree the parents don't have a hand in it. It was neglectful to not vigorously persue answers when their child wasn't thriving.

There are many stories on this site alone about parents having to battle with the health community to find answers on how to help their children when Dr's fluffed it off. They should have realized there was a serious problem, and fought like hell to help their child. That's what parents do.

#17 Outnumbered

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 07:27 PM

I don't think neglect on the [arents part is the issue at all. Neglect on the Dr's part- yes. At 12 lbs, he shoud have been running tests to see why the baby wasn't thriving


The doctor told them to take the baby to the hospital a month or more before this happened. The parents decided that they knew better from their books and decided to take the child home and treat with cabbage poultices. This is clearly a case of ideology overcoming sense. I don't think for a second that the average vegan mother is a hazard to her child - keeping a decent vegan diet takes a lot of work and awareness.

#18 Lasergirl

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 07:27 PM

While I absolutely agree, I have heard way too many stories of folks not asking questions or just taking a Dr's word as absolute fact and not persuing anything. It would never be my choice, but I have heard it way too often- especially in 1st time parents (although that is not the case here)

#19 Outnumbered

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 07:51 PM

Of course - that's where sense comes into play. I don't know many people who would ignore advice to bring their kid to the hospital. The potential risks of ignoring that kind of advice are far too serious to be taken lightly.

#20 Jen K

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 08:37 PM

:goodpost

Of course - that's where sense comes into play. I don't know many people who would ignore advice to bring their kid to the hospital. The potential risks of ignoring that kind of advice are far too serious to be taken lightly.



#21 Lasergirl

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 09:18 PM

I'm not saying I agree with it- but in some hard core grass roots circles I can it happening

#22 EmnMs

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 10:02 PM

Vegans are healthy and strong people- BUT that being said, feeding an infant child milk produced by a vegan diet, the mother should have been taking insane amounts of suppliments- for the baby's sake. And I'm sorry...babies NEED doctors, especially when they're sick. It's great to be holistic and natural- I definitely can appreciate that, but I think it has a time and place. Clay and herbs cannot cure bronchitis...especially in an infant. It's important to be informed, to know of other treatment options [heck, I use holistic teething meds for my kids- and a lot of other people I know do too] but when someone says "your kid needs to be hospitalized" ....you go check into the nearest hospital,and swallow your pride, and pray for your child.

That poor little baby, must have been starving and screaming for help- I feel bad for the parents too, because it doesn't seem like it was intentional , at all, just ...misinformation maybe?

Edited by EmnMs, 31 March 2011 - 10:04 PM.


#23 Outnumbered

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 10:38 PM

Call it willful misinformation - the kind people get when they deny any information that doesn't fit with their ideology.

#24 JavaBean

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 10:52 PM

And all this information is according to oversensationalized media. I'd like to assume that these parents really loved their baby and something went horribly wrong.

#25 Tired Mom

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 11:22 PM

And all this information is according to oversensationalized media. I'd like to assume that these parents really loved their baby and something went horribly wrong.


Understood, no one wants to think there are people out there who could stand back and not help a baby.

#26 terbear

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 07:14 AM

Call it willful misinformation - the kind people get when they deny any information that doesn't fit with their ideology.


LOVE this...

too many people are very guilty of it too. Only hearing the very small tidbits of anecdotal evidence that support their ideology but refuse to see overwhelming evidence against their ideology.

#27 creative mama

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 08:09 AM

Vegans are healthy and strong people- BUT that being said, feeding an infant child milk produced by a vegan diet, the mother should have been taking insane amounts of suppliments- for the baby's sake. And I'm sorry...babies NEED doctors, especially when they're sick. It's great to be holistic and natural- I definitely can appreciate that, but I think it has a time and place. Clay and herbs cannot cure bronchitis...especially in an infant. It's important to be informed, to know of other treatment options [heck, I use holistic teething meds for my kids- and a lot of other people I know do too] but when someone says "your kid needs to be hospitalized" ....you go check into the nearest hospital,and swallow your pride, and pray for your child.

That poor little baby, must have been starving and screaming for help- I feel bad for the parents too, because it doesn't seem like it was intentional , at all, just ...misinformation maybe?



My first reaction was to wonder if she was maintaining a well thought out diet as well. As I move more towards a plant based lifestyle, the hardest part for me is "re-learning" what a properly balanced diet is compared to the standard Food Guide. Vegan diets ARE normally very healthy provided you take the appropriate supplements that you need. It reminds me of the episode of House when the vegetarian parents had a really sick baby and House thought it was the diet they were feeding her until they spoke up about her dietitian family member said the child's diet was okay.

#28 kears

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 12:26 PM

I believe that the parents may have held strong to the belief that they were providing adequate nutrition for their baby, but her poor health and extremely low weight were clearly red flags!

My older sister was bfeeding exclusively (she did try to introduce solids at 6m's but her dd refused)...anyway by 10 months, her dd was losing weight and digressing in her milestones. She was hospitalized on the recommendation of her pead. and she still failed to eat solids. She was tube fed for a few days and they force weaned her...(refused to let my sister nurse any longer). It was traumatic, but my neice did begin to thrive off of a high caloric diet.

(my sister did attempt to nurse again, but her dd wouldn't eat anything if there was the option of bmilk....sadly even her own bodies hunger cues weren't strong enough for her to give in and eat other foods)

I completely believe that this baby's case and my sister's case are the exception. My sister had a normal healthy diet, so there is no common reason to believe that her milk should be deficient...but instead of arguing that point my sister put her child's health first and got help! This is what we do as parents....even in my family where bfeeding is viewed as the BEST possible option. I still feel terrible for the family, but I can't say that I don't blame them. They made choices...now there are consequences.